Let’s get you properly prepared for an interview and make sure you stand out. Remember, I strongly suggest that you immediately start applying to at least 1 job opening per day for a total of at least 7 jobs per week. Your new resume is already making you look incredibly impressive on paper, let’s now make sure you seal the deal by showing your preparedness, by showing you’re focused in the right areas, and by pitching high level marketing strategies.
With that being said, I’m giving this to you now as some of our students start getting interviews very quickly after applying the changes I suggested to their resume so I want you to be able to go into a marketing interview immediately and do well even before finishing our training videos. In this document, I’m going to briefly touch on some marketing strategies to pitch in your interview but do know that this is just a brief overview. I’ll go much more in depth on how all of this stuff works in the training and what software to use to implement these strategies. So, don’t worry if you’re a bit confused on the strategies. We’ll go over these in the training and you should always return back to this document when getting prepared for an interview as this is how you’ll ace them. Also, by understanding this interviewing framework now, as you’re learning from our training videos, you’ll be able to think about how you can present the strategies you’re learning within this framework to sound incredibly knowledgeable.
Interview Golden Rule: Your goal during your interview is NOT to solely talk about your past experiences, rather, it’s to be able to tie in your past experiences to show how you are going to come in and be able to make an immediate impact on the company that is hiring you.
All hiring managers want employees that are creative, that are hustlers, that are resilient, that are prepared, do their research, and those that can turn a negative situation into a positive one. These are the people we want to hire. Show off these characteristics in your interview by doing the research below and having several marketing strategies to pitch showing how you can help expand the company’s success.
How To Properly Prepare For A Marketing Interview
A big part of marketing is doing your research. With proper research, you’ll be able to understand your target demographic and provide content that is likely to perform well. How you prepare and research the company you’re interviewing with shows us hiring managers very quickly not only how serious you are about the job, but it also shows us how important research is to you. Remember, at the end of the day, the person who is making the hiring decision will likely financially be impacted by their hire’s performance as most marketing professional’s salary is partially determined by their team’s performance. Hiring managers want to make sure that whoever they choose to hire is going to perform well at the job and take the job seriously and being properly prepared and showing you’ve done a good amount of research gives us immediate insight into this. So, make sure you always do this.
Okay, but how do you do this? I’m going to make this easy for you. Simply do the below research and you’re going to look amazing. Once again, when it comes to the strategies we’re pitching and what inefficiencies to look for in the company you’re interviewing with, I’ll go over all of this way more in depth in the training videos.
See what their marketing currently looks like by signing up for their stuff and know their competitors
- Ideally, you’ll want to have a glimpse into all 4 of their digital marketing avenues if possible. Granted, you’re not going to spend an equal amount of time talking about all of these as you’ll want to focus on the area for the job you’re actually interviewing for (such as Social Media Manager), but if you can show that you’ve done your research in these other areas, have ideas on how to improve them, and can show that you understand the larger picture of marketing and how these all play off one another, you’re going to look great. But, at the end of the day, make sure you spend the most amount of time of course on the area for the job you’re interviewing for.
- Showing off your knowledge in all of these areas is easiest when talking about your past work experience (as you can say what you did and then mention what you’d do for their company) and again at the end of the interview when it’s time for you to ask questions. Your goal is not to simply just blurt out as much of this stuff as possible. You want it to be organic. I’m giving you enough stuff here to be able to talk to them for an 8 hour interview (which you’ll never have) so you just want to pick and choose as any combination of these marketing strategies that you’ll pitch is going to make you sound really smart.
- Follow them on whatever social media channels they have.
- Make note of their:
- Imagery, videos, stories, reels, etc.
- Color palette
- Their bio section
- What type of people follow them
- What types of posts they are making
- Which types of posts get the most engagement
- How long their copy is
- And if they are effectively using CTA’s.
- This is your chance to see if they are fully optimized or if there is room for improvement.
- Mention that you went through all their channels to show you’ve done your research. Make note that you’ve noticed a particular content type that performs well for them. Ask them a question about it. Don’t stop here though. Say you’d like to help further this success and you think by doing x, y, and z (strategies are in the social media training/ultimate guide) you can further expand on their success.
- Remember, you always want to show that you can help the company grow by pitching the marketing strategies you’ll learn in this program. Just be careful not to say that what they are doing sucks because there is a strong likelihood that the person you’re interviewing with had a part in creating that content.
- Always try to research and know the benchmarks for the industry on engagement and for that specific platform. Try to work that into the conversation and state that you are a very numbers oriented person. This not only once again shows you’re prepared and you’re good at research, but it shows you’re focused on numbers and results and this is incredibly important to us hiring managers as remember, your results impact our salaries. So we want to hire someone that focuses on this so be sure to mention how focused you are on bringing results. We LOVE hearing this.
- Make a list of a few of their main competitors and see what they are doing well. Mention that you researched them and then talk about how you’ll put this research into practice to help ensure the company you’re interviewing grows. Say, something along the lines of you can guarantee to increase engagement on their platform by taking what you’ve learned from the competition and applying it with this company. State, since you have a similar target demographic, I went through their page and I noticed a trend that whenever they created xxxx types of posts, their engagement doubled. Or, whenever they posted at this time, their engagement doubled. Since we have the same target demographic, we can use that to our advantage and create similar posts and expect to see similar results. If I work for you, I will consistently do this as I don’t believe in reinventing the wheel and putting content out there that I can’t guarantee is going to work well. So, by doing this type of research on our competition before posting, I can assure before our posts ever go public how well it will perform as I’m all about consistently achieving the best results.
- Additionally, make a list of 3-5 experts in the field and suggest trying to partner with them in some capacity to grow your audience and give your company better credibility. Mention their audience size and pitch a few reasons why they could be a good fit to partner with, how you’ll set up the partnership, and what you can possibly do with them to increase your following. Mention that you are always thinking of ways to increase brand awareness and the company’s presence and you have found this to be a good way to do so. Once again, emphasize how important numbers are to you and state that growing their online following is hopefully the first stage of a series stages to help funnel people as quickly as possible through their marketing funnel until they result in becoming customers.
There are plenty more strategies in the training but these are just a couple easy ones.
- Go to their website and sign up for their newsletter and whatever other free stuff they allow you to sign up for. This is going to let you see several of their email campaigns. Mention that you did this because research is incredibly important to you and you wanted to get a full understanding of how their company’s marketing plan operates as a whole as you know all marketing strategy is intertwined between social, email, ppc, and seo marketing efforts.
- Pay particular attention to their Subject Lines, their copy, imagery (if any), their CTA, how frequently they send emails, and if they are sell sell sell or if they are providing a good amount of helpful content to push leads through the buyer’s journey.
- If you’d like, come up with some alternate Subject Lines and CTA’s that you think could possibly work well. State that you’ve been trained to A/B test everything so you always have alternative subject lines and CTA’s ready. State they’ve probably already done A/B testing on all of this, but you just figured that this could be a chance to show your ability here (not necessary to do this but you could). This once again will show you’re super prepared.
- Additionally, you could give some percentages on which CTA’s often produce the highest click through rates (Google this). Once again, this is your chance to show that you’re results focused and you use stats to make your decisions as you understand and appreciate that every little decision in marketing ultimately has a financial impact on the company so you want to make sure that you always make sound decisions based on data.
- Know the benchmarks for the industry (Google it). State that you know for this industry the average open rate and click-through-rate for emails is x% but you feel you can get that higher by doing x, y, and z. This once again shows you’re numbers focused (as all marketers should be) and that you’re prepared.
- There are plenty more specific strategies in the Email Training/Ultimate Guide for you to pitch.
- Once again, state what you’ve noticed from your findings in a complimentary way, ask a question about it, and then state a marketing strategy on how you think you can expand on their success.
- This one is a bit harder as they determine who will see their ads. However, if you click on enough stuff on their website/social media pages and type in enough keywords in Google, eventually you should start seeing ads from them if they are running any.
- Pay attention to what ad types they are running. If their ad populates on Google for certain keywords, note these and mention that you noticed they’re targeting x, y and z keywords. Ask them if they find these are some of their best performing keywords, ask them about how competitive these keywords are, and then give a few other keywords that you thought about searching for when thinking about their company and see if they’re going after these keywords as well or ask if they are too obvious and therefore too expensive which wouldn’t provide a good ROI.
- As you’ll see in our PPC training, you don’t just want to go after keywords that get the most searches as these often times can be the most expensive. Instead, you want to show that you understand that ROI is the most important thing when deciding what keywords to target. Show that you understand this concept (Once again, we’ll go much more in depth in our training on all of this).
- Things to note when doing your PPC research on a prospective company:
- For their ads on social media, what content type are they using?
- Are they using posts in your feed? Are they using video? Stories? Etc. Is it eye-catching?
- Is the message clear?
- Does the CTA make you want to click?
- How’s the landing page when you do click?
- Is the landing page short and to the point?
- Does it make you want to give them your email address?
- Take note of all of these things, mention that you noticed it, compliment it, and provide a strategy on how you can possibly expand on the effectiveness based on what you’ve learned in our training on ads and landing pages.
- Go to their blog. Read the type of content they are writing about and mention that you’ve noticed they really focus on x, y, and z topics. This is going to tell you a lot about their target audience as that’s who they are trying to appeal to at the end of the day. Compliment it, ask a few questions, and possibly have a few topics to pitch and ask if something like this would align with what their target audience likes. Give yourself an out just in case you’re off by stating something along the lines of, “Without actually being part of the company and knowing the ins-and outs of your target demographic just yet, this was just a thought based on the research I’ve gathered from an outsider’s perspective by looking at your website, social media, email, blog and ppc campaigns. As you can tell, research is very important to me as I like to be prepared and I want to help make whatever company I work for run as efficiently as possible and I know I can do that by making sound decisions based on good research.”
- Take note of their blog set up. Is it all over the place or is it nicely organized and easy for the viewer to move through? If it’s solely listed by date, you might want to mention clustering it into categories if you see a clear way to do this by topic.
- Pay attention to the writing component of their blog.
- Is it all text?
- Is the text bunched up?
- Do they have room for comments at the bottom (this increases engagement)?
- Are they using CTA’s? Do they have imagery and use graphs?
- What types of blogs are they posting?
- Listicles, How-to’s? Etc.
- Do they link to their other blog articles in their blog which keeps users on their website longer and gets users to become more interested in their brand?
- Are they citing other well known articles to help their organic ranking?
- Do these articles rank well on Google when you’re searching Google for articles on the topic?
- You’ll want to use what you’ll learn in our SEO training to talk about how you can optimize all of this so that it’s more SEO friendly and then all the things you’ll do to ensure that their articles rank well on Google and hopefully get them to the #1 spot so that you can drive more people to the website. Once again, mention you’re all about numbers and results and you have a step by step plan on how you’ll attack this to get these articles and the company more exposure. You’ll definitely want to mention that you’ll start this process by using Ahrefs as you’ll start your research by what your competitors are doing, look at the data and see what’s working well for them, and then do something similar but better. This way, you can once again state that you try to make all decisions based on data as you want to ensure any content or strategy you put out there has a high likelihood of succeeding before you’ve even created it as it’s already proven via data that your target audience likes this stuff.
- These are the things you want to pay attention to, comment on, and then once again politely state a few things you feel you would look into/implement as you feel you could expand on their results.
- Take a look at the flow. Is it easy to gather info on what they do and how they help? Is it aesthetically pleasing? From a marketing standpoint, what are they driving the viewer to do? How are they collecting leads? What are they offering to give away in return for your email address (lead magnet)? Is this enticing enough or is there a giveaway you’d value more? Does the sign up form scroll with the user as they move down the website? Does the sign up button stand out enough? Is the CTA good for the sign-up button? Do they have too many sign up buttons where it’s distracting? Are they using a chatbot which increases engagement, lead generation, and customer service? Are they using an exit-pop-up tool to try to capture leads? If not, is there a reason why? Would they be open to adding this as this has proven to be a great way to collect additional leads.
- Mention how important lead generation is to you as this is an extremely important part of marketing and then comment on a few ways you’ve noticed they’re trying to collect leads through their website, social, email, ppc, and through their blogs. Ask a question or 2 about it and then provide a couple of strategies that you feel could help them expand on their success.
- It’s important that you state how important lead generation is to you. Remember, your hiring manager’s salary is partly based on performance. How well you do will directly impact their salary. If you show your mind is in the right place and that you care about working efficiently on getting as many qualified leads as possible for the company, this hiring manager is going to know your mind is focused on the right areas that’s going to allow them to hit their target numbers and perform well. Hiring Managers want to hire someone that makes us feel as though you are focused on results and helping the company grow as that directly impacts our salary. So, show them that you’re constantly focused on creating great marketing that focuses on generating as many qualified leads as possible and then moving them through the marketing funnel in an efficient way so that you can convert as optimally as possible for the greatest ROI.
- Without a doubt, you’re going to want to talk about how you did lead generation in our program using automation tools. It’s assignment 2. This will knock your hiring manager’s socks off and they’ll want you to implement this for them. I promise you that. Nobody you’re competing with will have done anything like this and 9 out of 10 hiring managers will have never done this as well as this is a really high-level strategy that I’ll teach you in assignment 2. You for sure want to mention this and list it high on your resume as it’s super impressive.
You’ll learn 100+ marketing strategies throughout our program that you can pitch during your interviews but I just wanted to provide a couple easy ones here. If you want to quickly search for additional marketing strategies, go to our Ultimate Guides for Social Media, Email, PPC, SEO Marketing and press “Command + F” and type in “Interview Tip” and you’ll be able to quickly see additional ones you can pitch.
Just from the above, you already have plenty of things to talk about. You won’t be able to squeeze all of this into your interview which is perfectly fine but you will want to ALWAYS create a 30, 60, 90 day plan on what you’ll do if you’re hired so that you can once again show how prepared you are as well as that you have a plan to immediately bring a positive impact to the company.
Creating Your 30, 60, 90 Day Plan On What You’ll Do If Hired
If a hiring manager can tell you didn’t do much research on the company, you will immediately be disqualified for the job. This immediately shows us how important this job is to you. This is afterall our first impression of you. So, show that you care by doing the above otherwise, why would we think you’d be an employee that cares about their job and works hard?
So, after doing all of the above research, you’re going to want to create and pitch a 30, 60, 90 day plan of what you will do if hired at some point during the interview. This is just essentially pitching your marketing strategies (like I discussed above) that you would like to accomplish on top of the tasks that you are assigned during your first month, 2nd month and 3rd month at the job. For example, if you’re applying for a social media role, you might say you’d like to increase their following and engagement by setting up partnerships with x, y, and z who are experts in the field, exchanging shout outs and interviews on one another’s platform, researching the competition and determining from data what posts work well and then emulate this, and by running a specific type of contest that usually performs well and leads to a lot of new followers and lead conversions etc. You’ll obviously want to flesh out your plan a bit more than this but you get the gist. You’ll usually be able to give your 30, 60, 90 when they ask you what you will be able to do for the company if hired or you’ll do this once they are done asking questions and before you start asking them questions. You can just say,
“Listen, I’d really love to work here as I know I can add a ton of value and hopefully make your life easier as I’m sure you’re incredibly busy. I’ve prepared a 30, 60, 90 day plan full of marketing strategies that I can implement on top of whatever work you’re assigning me as I want to make sure that I immediately contribute to help further the success of this company. Based on my research as an outsider (give yourself this out just in case your strategy doesn’t align perfectly with their plan or their target demographic), I feel we can implement x, y, and z to the marketing plan which should lead to even more conversions, leads, or engagement.”
Once you’re done with your 30, 60, 90, then it will likely be your turn to ask questions and then you can start asking questions based on the research you’ve done.
Try to keep your 30, 60, 90 to around 3 minutes but don’t go too much over that and just say you have a lot more strategies and when you 2 have more time, you’d be happy to go over these in more detail as you want to make your boss look as good as possible in making the decision to hire you. Remind them that you’d be happy to do these things on top of whatever the company specifically needs from you as you don’t want to come off as though you’re just going to do your own plan and ignore the tasks they actually need you to do. So, make sure you’re clear about this.
A lot of entry-level marketing professionals fail to talk about a 30, 60, 90 day plan and this really hurts their chances of getting hired. Remember, we want someone that isn’t just going to talk about themselves, but rather, we want someone that has a plan on how they can make an immediate impact on the company they are applying for. Use your research that you did and all the strategies that you’ll learn from my program to come up with this plan for the company you’re interviewing with. I wish I could give you a single plan that works universally, but at the end of the day, this needs to be specific to the job role you’re applying for and for that particular company. Do all of the things I mentioned above, and depending on what the role is you’re applying for (for example a social media role), you’ll want to have a majority of your pitch focus on areas where you can help them grow there. When doing this, you don’t need to talk about SEO or email marketing (assuming this is for a social media role) as you want your pitch to be specific to the job at hand because this is ultimately what they are hiring for and you want to make sure that you emphasize you are as much of a specialist in this area as possible. You’ve already at this point likely shown your knowledge for the complete picture of marketing by being able to bring stuff up about their other areas of marketing (as well as how prepared you are) but at the end of the day, you want to show them that you are focused on what they need for this job role so make your plan specific to that rather than just trying to show everything you know.
Once again, the main thing you want to emphasize in your interviews is the value that you’re going to bring if hired. DON’T simply talk about your past. Show your value and exactly what you’ll do if hired. By showing off how prepared you are and by pitching the marketing strategies my program has taught you, you’re giving yourself a gigantic leg up on why you should be hired. As mentioned above, you need to make sure you do extensive research on the company so that you can see where they are likely having problems and come up with solutions on how to fix that/expand on their success. Bottom line, make sure you’re showing the value you’ll bring if hired.
Preparing for Interview Questions
First, let’s make sure you nail the basic most common interview questions:
Most interviews for entry-level marketing positions will follow a very similar format. Master these responses and you’ll already be a much better interviewer.
The Universal Job Interview Format:
- Tell me about yourself (your experience, why you’re interested in this role, etc.)
- A mix of behavioral questions, which we’ll dive into shortly
- What questions do you have for me (the interviewer)?
Let’s break each one down further:
Tell Me About Yourself!
- This is your first impression. This is not a time to simply regurgitate what you have on your resume. They can read.
- Also, you’re applying for a marketing role. Rule #1 in marketing is don’t try to sell your services/product. Instead, show how your product/service can fix the target customer’s problem. I’m sure your current pitch as to why you’d be a great addition to the team sounds something like this:
“I am a quick learner that has a lot of experience in social media marketing. I am looking for a position that will allow me to prove myself, with opportunity for growth because I know that if given the chance, I will be able to excel in the marketing field and be able to make it into a lifelong career.”
- 9 out of 10 entry-level marketing applicants sound like this. Did you notice how this pitch was about you rather than how you can help? If you can’t market yourself effectively, why would a marketing hiring manager think you’ll be able to do it for their company/product? As a general rule of thumb, you need to instead be talking about the improvement you will bring to the company such as:
“I will use my experience to automate your lead generation techniques to get more potential customers in our marketing funnel just as I did with xxxxx company.” I hope you understand how that is a much more powerful statement in our ears than what you provided.
- Ideally, you want to craft a 2-3 minute response and think about what they would want to hear given their pain points (based on your research) and tie that into your story. For example:
- Choose 2-3 themes to build your story around (for me, those themes were Persistence, Agility, and Success)
- Include quantitative metrics whenever possible
- Address why your story makes you a great addition to the team and a person that can immediately bring value if hired
- To help get you started, here is what your story could sound like:
Growing up, like most people, I wanted to make change in this world. I went to [college] where I majored in marketing as I knew with my creativity, I could bring major change in the world for the things I believe in. So, I set my sights on getting educated and getting all of the work experience I could possibly get and created a plan that has got me to this interview today.
In 2020, I graduated. This obviously wasn’t the best job market to graduate in given the toll that COVID was taking on the economy. With jobs being scarce and unemployment high, I knew that I couldn’t just sit back and just keep applying to place after place and hope I slip through the cracks somewhere. You see, I’m a go-getter. I’m not the type of person that accepts a bad situation. I’m going to go out and adapt and adjust. So, I knew I needed to do everything that I could to get as much real world work experience as I possibly could as I knew that I would be competing with professionals who already had a few years working in the marketing industry and were now looking for new jobs after getting laid off. So, I did exactly that and I got work experience in Social Media, Email Marketing, PPC and SEO marketing so that I could bring as much value as possible to any company that I work for.
During my time at JobPrepped, I was able to gain a vast amount of work experience and even set up a really cool lead generation system using automation tools where we were able to grow our presence quickly while having it run somewhat on autopilot which was really neat. This led to a 75% increase in conversions over my time there.
However, my dream has always been to work at this company since I got into this industry and I’m really excited and grateful to have this opportunity with you here today.
Next, We Have The Behavioral Questions Part of the Interview
Here, we’re looking at your thought process and your ability to be a “team player,” as well as why you’re interested in this specific role. You’ll get questions like the below:
- Why do you want to work for us?
- Tell me about a time you exhibited leadership
- Tell me about a time where you had to work as a team
- Tell me about a time you’ve had to work with a difficult person, or difficult people
- Tell me about a time you failed
- Tell me about a time you overcame an obstacle
- Tell me about a time when you had success
In answering these, follow the same set of rules I mentioned above in the Tell Me About Yourself section:
- Craft a concise story
- Make sure to include quantitative metrics that illustrate your success if you have this. If not, don’t worry.
- Anticipate and address objections
Next, You’ll Get Some Company Specific Questions
Try not to go into your interviews blind. Instead, head over to GlassDoor. Glassdoor is a great resource for any job seeker that includes salaries, reviews, and interview information for almost any company in the world.
First, you are going to search for the position you’re interviewing for. Let’s say you’re applying to work for Google. We’ll search for “Google” under Companies & Reviews:
Next, click on the “Interviews” Tab:
Then scroll down and click on “Filter Interviews” which will bring up some advanced settings. Here type in the title of the job you want and the location. Select “Received Offer”.
You’ll now have a list of reviews from everyone that interviewed and received an offer for that position. You can read all the comments but our main focus for the time being is the Interview Questions section towards the bottom. Look through these and add 10-15 of them to a document so you can practice answering these later.
Finally, We’re At The End of the Interview And They Ask, What Questions Do You Have For Me?
This is an incredibly important part of the interview because you can use it to really show that you think in the right way and have a strong marketing/business mind. It will show if you’re focused on the right strategies and it will show if you understand the larger marketing landscape and how to make the company you’re applying for as efficient as possible and get the most return on investment. I can’t stress this point enough. Your above research on the company will help you understand where their particular inefficiencies are and our training will help you understand how to solve these problems in the most efficient way possible. This is a great place to show that.
Please don’t just ask questions like the below bullet points. Your time with the interviewer is limited so you want to make sure you maximize your impression on them by using each minute to show how strong of a candidate you are. So, don’t ask these basic questions but instead, ask high level marketing questions based on the research I told you to do above that go into conversions, lead generation tactics, inefficiencies and stuff of that nature. Once you ask them about these things, let them respond, and then ask them if they’ve considered doing x, y, and z (pitch your marketing strategy) as your past experience shows that this could possibly lead to increased results. This is how you work in your worth/knowledge and your all around value that you can bring! This is where you can really show off how great of a fit you are as you’re providing a ton of solutions and strategies to some potential problems they may have while showing you’re focused on constant improvement and results.
Be careful about spending too much time on the below questions as you’re still trying to prove you’re the right fit for them. Yes you want to show you’re interested in the position and want to know about what your days will look like, but it’s also important to first, get them to want you. So, just be mindful of that and really try to stay away from any questions that might suggest you’re concerned about working hard and are already looking forward to time off.
- What is your favorite part about working here?
- What are your hours like?
- How long have you been at this job?
- What happened to the previous person in this position?
- How much does this job pay?
Always Send a Thank You Email!
Do this for everyone you interviewed with. Also if you learned anything personal about them during your interview, possibly incorporate that in your thank you message to make it feel personalized.
The Follow Up
I Haven’t Heard Back In 3 Days!
That’s okay. That’s completely normal. Although this is a huge deal to you, hiring managers have other tasks on their plate so don’t take this as an insult. Don’t reach out just yet.
So When Can I Reach Back Out?
As a rule of thumb, wait 1 business week before following up and never send a follow up email on a Monday as these get the lowest response rates. When you follow up, don’t be pushy and keep it short and sweet:
I hope you had a great week!
I wanted to quickly follow up and see if there was anything else I could help with regarding the application process. If so, please let me know!
That’s it. If they don’t respond to that after another 3-4 days, you have your answer and it’s time to move onto the next company (which you’ve already started the reachout process for as you should be doing this with multiple companies at a time).
You’re all set. You now have a killer resume (once you add the work experience to it like I instructed in the last guide) which is going to get you in more interviews and follow these steps and pitch the strategies that I provide here and in my trainings and you’re going to ace them. Go in confidently. I’m telling you, already, just with the info you’ve learned already in our program, you have a huge leg up on the people you’re competing with as you’re giving us hiring managers EXACTLY what we want.